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03 Nov 2004
I normally avoid talking about politics here because I don't do it well, but the events of today have left me baffled and depressed. I know that I'm not a US citizen, and so have no right to have a say in who becomes President, but when this particular US President has such a huge and largely deleterious effect on world events, I think everyone has a right to express their opinion. Yes, it's good that turn-out was so high (unlike most UK elections), and assuming that the ballot was fairly conducted, it's good that there was actually a majority this time. But given what I—and many other people—think about George Bush, that forces me to conclude that I have no possible way of understanding the mentality of the majority of US citizens. They might as well be aliens. The minority who didn't vote for Bush (and I know some of you personally) have my utmost sympathy. We only have to suffer the side-effects here, but you guys have to live in the country.
I've been watching the documentary series The Power of Nightmares, which would be hilarious if the implications weren't so grave. The series tracks the parallel rise of the neo-conservatives and the radical Islamists. The ironic thing is that both seemed to have started with very similar aims: to halt the perceived decline in morals and the rise of individualism, and return to 'traditional values'. To that end, the neo-conservatives tried to unite the country by building up a terrifying threat to society; in the beginning, this was the Soviet threat, but when the Cold War ended, it became Islamic terrorists (ironically, the former allies of the US in neutralising the Soviets).
Various neo-con commentators interviewed on the programme were very open about the fact that hard evidence didn't much matter—it was just a means to an end, and they had the people's best interests and democracy at heart. I don't think it's very democratic if the people are making their decisions on the basis of lies (or at least absent evidence), but there you go. At one point, they discussed a theory that emerged (I think during the early Regan era) among the neo-cons that all the terrorist organisations—IRA, ETA et al.—were actually secretly controlled by the Soviet Union. The head of the CIA was asked to prove that this was the case (note the wording), and relayed this to his agents. They looked a bit baffled and said, "Well, I can tell you right now that it's not true, because we in the CIA planted the rumour as black propaganda." These facts didn't seem to matter, and they still had to 'prove' that it was true. Does this ring any WMD bells? Remind you of any comments about the 'reality-based community'? As a scientist, this disregard for proof, evidence and empirical data makes me shake my head in disbelief. It's just wrong.
I'm going to have a beer.
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Having participated in too many of these arguments online prior to the election TechJosh, my experience is that they always end up in a dialogue of the deaf. I also don't feel this comments thread is really the right place for such a ding dong.
The main thing is that GWB now has 4 more years to show that his approach is the right one, so we will all have to wait and see, and hope for the best.
by ThoughtBadger @ 09/11/2004 12:12 pm • Permalink •
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Interesting comment by TechJosh, from a very different perspective to a European one. The only comment I have on that is the threat of terror...at least it's stopped US citizens funding the IRA! You should have tried living in London during the 1980s and 1990s when various laws were brought in to "protect" it's citizens, and you still can't find a rubbish bin for love or money these days. Oh and have a read of this: http://www.theregister.com/2004/11/07/bluestateto_reds/ I'm not sure where the original article was posted, but it's an interesting perspective. BSAG, yes I realise people are still shocked, but so were a lot of people when Maggie was re-elected...so it will be interesting to see what the long term result of a divisive president is.
Cheers Tim
by Tim @ 09/11/2004 1:12 pm • Permalink •
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Aliens? What Uncle Sam really wants...
face it, you live in a Matrix Worls. there is a reality, of which you may know a bit, but you are misinformed (desinformed of) quite substantially.
We are the most propagandized generation that ever lived on this planet.. simply because we have so many news-media.
Here is another truth:
The JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF did 911.
http://www.stlimc.org/display.php3?article_id=14486
http://www.stlimc.org/front.php3?article_id=17067
ed2k://|file|The Truth And Lies Of 9-11 - 911 - New-York - Wtc - Cia - Fbi - Pentagon - Nsa - George Bush - Usa - Vhs Xvid [found via www.FileDonkey.com].avi|738377728|25cd222950134ee6cbc9c97ae27070b4|/
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These polemical TV essays are available on the web. If you do not have 3 hours to dedicate to looking at a postage stamp sized picture(!), I nonetheless highly recommend seeing the 3rd essay. I believe there are also bittorrents that can be found too.
Whatever your political perspective, and whether you buy the whole argument or like me have significant reservations, this provides much food for thought.
by ThoughtBadger @ 11/11/2004 3:12 am • Permalink •
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As a person who voted for Bush, I thought I might explain why for all those who dont see eye to eye with him. Just FYI, I dont see eye to eye with him either... in fact, I have to say that honestly I probably agree with Kerry on more issues. What made my decision were two things: he sticks to his convictions and he doesn't lie.
Despite the downplay of the threat of terror in this forum you must agree that the threat of terror in this day and age is greater than it was ever before. If something terrible were to happen I'd rather have someone there that I trust to do what he believes is right, not what is popular.
As for those complaining about the Patriot Act, please remember that the act was ratified by the congress BEFORE it got to the president. At that point the law was badly needed so Bush signed it into law despite its flaws, figuring congress could always fix it later. Their failure to do so should not be blamed on the president.
As for Iraq, those of you that say it would have been better if we had never gone at all are not considering the entire picture. Saddam Husein was either unable or unwilling to feed his people. Malnutrition was so rampant that more people would die in one day from malnutrition in Iraq than all of the casualties of war have. Then theres the lack of modern medical facilities which causes a high infant mortality rate. Sure, we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction... unless by "mass destruction" you mean the ability to kill thousands with a single missile. Thats right... for some reason the media doesn't consider chemical weapons like nerve gas to be WMDs even though they were found in large quantities in bunkers.
Whether you believe what was done was justified or not, you must agree that we cannot simply leave now. If we did just up and leave there would be an international outcry, even among the Arabic nations. Kerry said he could get the US out of Iraq in 4 years. Bush said we'd pull out when Iraq is self sufficient in terms of security and industry, but refused to set a date. I have to agree with Bush's logic here... Its kindof like driving a great distance with kids who keep asking "Are we there yet?"... "No"... "Are we there yet?"... "No"... "Well, when will we be there?"... "When we get there"... "When will that be?"... "That depends on how bad the traffic is... could be an hour or two."
So, thats how I feel about it... Feel free to ask any questions... I dont mind playing the Devil's advocate
PS: I'm male, 23 years old, and a Christian... if those stats matter to anyone
by TechJosh @ 09/11/2004 11:12 am • Permalink •